Reply Recommend Message 1 of 6 in Discussion From: Rev_Malice (Original Message) Sent: 4/11/2006 8:18 PM Oh fam, heres the deal, my Brother, my own flesh adn blood, is the one who indroduced me to the carnival. I remember first hearing the beats of The Great Melinko entering my ears, filling my head with visions of the Dark Carnival, And myself walking into the light. Me and my Bro have been down together ever since. Our faith in the carnival alwayse flowed smoothly, and lovingly I have since grown beyond a pety fan into a Juggalo of the Dark Carnival in all his greatness. I know the Carnival is god. I know the message of Insane Clown Posse is holy, and benifactory. I KNOW that they hads every inention of introducing a belife system, or "religion" as i call it usualy. Am i crazy here? is it crazy to call being Dow a Religion? is that the wrong word? Hetre is my delemma. I was having an online argument with a non-beliver about being down, so i invited my bro into the convorsation... I asked him... " Do you belive that the Dark Carnival is Holy?" be prepared for your jaw to have a suddon impact on the desk.... His reponce was... "No, bro, The carnival is all about death, chaos, treatchery, anarchy and destruction, juggalos are in it for ourselfves, religion is a waste of time. The carival is Truly Satan, Lucifer, The Devil. Get it?" I almost cried. How could the one who taught me most of what i know about the carnival be so ignorent. And he is still holding through to this minute. WHat should i tell him? this is unbelivable. should i realy just accept that he is that terribly wrong? if i do, all he will evr do is pound me with shit, and lyrics "prooving" ICP wants juggalos to be evil, and i dont want to lose my brother over this... WTF DO I DO! HELP{~~~!@@!$!@%~#%~@# First Previous 2-6 of 6 Next Last Reply Recommend Message 2 of 6 in Discussion From: Lecom55 Sent: 4/12/2006 9:31 PM See, the beauty of the Carnival lies in these things. as you know, being a Jugalo is all about being yourself. Be whatever the fuck you like, as long as you are a good person and stay loyal to your friends and fam and keep ya mind open. As yoy know, many Juggalos are scrubs, stepped upon by the rest of the world, searching for new meaning in life. They find the Carnival, and beyond its dope-ass music they find a deeper meaning, a message of unity and hope. Different people see this message in different ways. To some, like you and me, it is a message of God, Shangri-La and the light. It may be very different to others, like your brother. But remember, the Carnival accepts all that are down with it, and you are truly a Juggalo only when you can look past the differences between people, especially the differences between Juggalos themselves. Stay down for the things that unite you rather than get separated for the things that make yall authentic and unique. Conformist Juggalos are sheeps and hoes, you stay true only if you follow whatever you feel like following and not what someone tells you to. My advice is that you don't overthink the whole your brother being a Satanist thing. I know it's stale, but don't change him, let him remain who he is and like him for it. Concentrate on your similarities, not your differences. Kick back and let the Faygo fly instead of letting God's Light being a reason for beefing with your Juggalo and blood brother. Reply Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion From: KenderSonOfTasselhoff Sent: 4/14/2006 1:53 PM Well bro, I agree with Lecom in a lot of ways, but you'll notice a few differences in MY way of putting it. Every person on this planet has an opinion. Thats one thing that makes us unique, not just from each other but from other creatures on this earth. And having opinions, people don't always come to the same conclusion as every body else. For instance, you believe the dark carnival is god, who is of the utmost holy of all, al I corect? Well U would think that because J says it right? J is a wonderful speaker and writter of music. He can put the most fucked up thing ever into the most elegant of ways sometimes, and make it funny as shit. Him and all the homies, like dancin with dead gurls in a graveyard. Come on, a NORMAL person would think that thats sick as fuck and probably from satan right?? What about killin people? Murder MUST be from satan because its bad. Well my view is God gave us life. The bible (which just to add I don't think is totally filled with facts) says that we were created being able to live forever, and sinse we sinned now we can die. I think its bull. Life CANNOT exist without death. So god created life AND death. So doesn't it make sense that the dark carnival would somewhat promote death? With out that death, you have no life. And LIFE is the BEST part about being alive. Also, when I think of murder (like in the songs) I usually do it to release some anger. I believe that its WRONG to take a life without just cause. So for me to take a life cuz I'm pissed would go against my own beleifs. I listen to some ICP and I feel calm, like I've killed the person already and I don't need to anymore. From there I can find a place within myself to forgive them. ONLY if they show that they won't fuck up again. Some people find this disturbing, some would say I need mental help. But I've GOT the help. Juggalo family, THAT is my help. Juggalo music THAT is my help. If your bro thinks that the dark carnival is satan, that I personally think that her hasn't found that inner peace that can make harmony with the carnival like we can. He must still have a LOT of anger and listens to the music as music. Letting himself revel and bask in the thought of killing of fuckin peoples up instead of using it to let the anger go. Of course this is just MY opinion and I really don't know why any of my fellow Brothers/sisters listen to the music. I was attracted to the music for the thought of fuckin peoples up. It was later that I found my peace. I don't exactly have the same views of GOD as others do. My opinion is very complicated to some, but VERY simple to others. It involes being at a mental state of tranquility to let yourself accept what I have come to know as truth. Who god is, where he came from, why we're here, what happens when we die, did we exist before this life. What J says corrilates with what I'm sayin, but I tend to think I go jsut a bit more in depth in it. My view of god CAN'T be entirely be explained over text. So I'll just leave it at this, god is the carnival. Is it the place that we were before we were born and the place we are in a seperate self as we speak and the place we will be when we die. Why we're here, simply because God wants us to be. For SO many reasons that I'd be writting for a while to tell ALL of it. What happens when we die, I think that we go to the same place that we were at before we were here. Which is out past life. Which in the sense that J put it, is just someones dream. My thought is that its so much more than a dream, its a dream that isn't in anyones head. No can really explain how it will be or how it works. But I can tell U it works. So back to your bro. The way that your bro comes to find the carnival as a good god. In my eyes the same way I did. But never the less, love him because he is family, and cherish what little time you have together. I'm out here soon though. So as parting gift (not much) but the only thing I can offer are my words. What I have said will either help or have little effect. So MCL and I hope that my parting gift has brought a bit more light to you situation. Reply Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion From: flertkilla Sent: 4/14/2006 2:54 PM Okay Hommie, There is one thing that I have to say that may baffel tha fuck out of you and your Bro. The truth is that you are both right in every way. The Carnival is about the circle of life...the good as well as the bad...Satan as well as God...Zuse as well as Hades...death as well as life, ect. To me being down is verry similar to a religion...but it's not orthadox. You feel me? The Carnival is not about telling you what to do or telling you what is right or wrong. It's about helping you on your way to finding who you realy are and helping you to deside what is right and wrong in your own life. You can't fuckin judge people if you don't know their story. But then again you can judge tha hell out of people if all they are is fuckin hipicrits. Tha Dark Carinival to me is all about tha yen and tha yang. Everything has it's exceptions. The Carnival is also about love as well as hate. Yeah sure, hate tha fuckers who torture your life and the lives of your juggalo fam...but have a forgiveness within your self where you can come to peace with everything and know that you will soon rejoice in Shangri-La. It's all about getting there hommie. It's all about making it to Shangri-La and trying to take as many hommies with you as you can. Keep faith in yourself, your hommies, and tha Carnival. Do what you know to be right but forgive yourself for any wrong that you may do. Do these things and you and yor Bro will be joining me and all tha rest of tha Fam in Shangri-La. Keep tha Clown Love hommie and make sure you spread it around....but you also gotta remember to keep your hatchet swingin. See it all makes since because it dosen't make sence lol. If you get me. MMFCL hommie! I am Lady Death, Flertkilla Reply Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion From: Lecom55 Sent: 4/14/2006 8:54 PM Great posts, both guys before me. I would just also like to add two things., First, all of you are correct. As it was said on the 6th Card, the carnival is just a reflection of our own lives. We all see in it what we need to see in it, whether it's God, blood, murder, bliss, happiness, or the ying and the yang. The carnival is an abstract thing with multilevel messages, and we find the specific ones that we personally need and use thm to fill our lives. That's why the Carnival complements us all so well, even though the ways in which it complements us are very different. Second, the ICP, and Psy in general, is a group of bands unlike any other for a reason barely, if ever, mentioned. They are people bringing very positive messages to a very negative crowd. They teach love for one another, hate for hypocricy, acceptance of outcasts, folly of social cliques, etc, the most important one being that the scrubs of the society are not alone, and no one has the right to take away the natural shine we all have deep inside, even if it is covered by layers of rust and neglect. This is a message of many religions, yet it often passes by those who need it the most - the troubled outcasts, the thugs, the losers, the geeks and the freaks. Many religious messages are delivered in a manner with which the outcasts just can't connect. So the ICP wrapped their messages of positivity with much outright negativity - blood, murder, insanity, wickedry. Their symbol is a fucking hatchet. These things help the outcasts identify with the band that appears as scrubby, wretched and neglected as they are. Only then can their messages be accepted on a whole new level. Now let's see your typical thugsta rappers or emo kids, who cry their guts out, do that. Reply Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion From: Rev_Malice Sent: 4/14/2006 9:10 PM Homies, this is why i love you guys. you were all balls. I just about ccried by yht time i read the 4th post. So many good points that i KNOW but was untill now unable to materialize into rational thought! I know it is not my place to "convert" my brother, after all, even if he is right and all of us are wrong, and the JC's were all satanic promo's, he introduced me into this life of family love and happiness. I cound not be alive without my fam right mutha fuckin here homies. I felt something click deep down inside... and it was a light of life. I feel better. My brothers views may be misguided. "First, all of you are correct. As it was said on the 6th Card, the carnival is just a reflection of our own lives. We all see in it what we need to see in it, whether it's God, blood, murder, bliss, happiness, or the ying and the yang."-Lecom55 dude, that line brought so many things to mind... I will alwayse remember that.